posted 04-06-2001 18:05            

He plunges unseeing
into the abyss
he himself has dug

He died without suspecting
that it is he himself
who has brought about
his own death

Thus it is worked out
from maggots upto man
the universal law
of the violent destruction of living beings

The whole earth
continually stinked with blood
is nothing but an immense alter
on which every living thing must be sacrificed

Without end
without restraint
without remoarse

Until the consumation of the world
the extrinction of evil
and the death of death

"The Abattoir Eternal" - The Electric Hellfire Club

posted 04-06-2001 19:41            

Jesus, all you "good old days" types fuckin' kill me.

1. Agnosticism, much less atheism, could get you burned at the stake in 1200
2. All your girlfriend/wife's virginity are belong to the lord of the manor in 1200
3. All your girlfriend/wife's booty are belong to pretty much any passing member of the nobility in 1200
4. If you and your family are starving and you kill a deer to feed them, you'll be hung (or worse) for your "crime" in 1200

And for those of you who want to bust out the immediate "but I'd be a noble!" argument - were you born rich in THIS life? No? What makes you think you'd be born rich in THAT one?

Incidentally, as long as we're dispelling popular myths, hunter/gatherer cultures didn't "live in harmony with nature" (paleolithic American Indian tribes were responsible for widespread species extinctions), nuclear power is absolutely the environmentally cleanest power source currently available, yes, that includes geothermal shit, man is not the only animal that kills for sport, war is not exclusively the fault of the male gender, and none of the numbers printed on the outside wall of a passenger car tire represent the tire's circumference.

posted 04-06-2001 19:59            

Hehe. Jimbo, back then, people weren't as idiotic as they are today. I am still in high school, but I see some of the most idiotic people.

Now, as for those 4 bad things you mentioned.

1:]People back then took religion more seriously then we do today, so we (hopefully)wouldn't think of being either one of those things.

2:]Nahahahahahaz

3:]I hardly think nolbilty would touch a hot but poor worker type female. And was that true in all middle age cultures? Like in Japan?

4:]That's ok though... kill and run

I wouldn't give that arguement, Jimbo, but from what I remember of my family's ancestory, I am descended from from high ranking office person I think in the 1300s. I feel special now.

What other animal kills for sport?
And are you sure about the numbers printed on the outside wall of a passenger car?

Here's one for you :

Life is a STD
it is hereditary
there is no cure
it is deadly
and no one is immune

posted 04-06-2001 20:09            

Especially about the greatest number being 37. WTF is that? Everyone knows that this is 42.

Hey, while we're at it, I want to live in 2500 AD when the world is at perfect harmony with itself. My perfect genetically-engineered self and my perfect genetically-engineered girlfriend have no desire to bicker or fight or do anything other than make sweet sweet love. Then, should we have the urge, we could go to a store and buy our own personalized designer children created by the cloned Tommy Hilfiger.

I can also play the PS9 which is the closest thing to heaven that I'll ever know, since modern technology has obliterated all biological, chemical, natural and unnatural forms of death and I can live forever. Oh and I'm rich, but not rich in money terms because money is banned because, as we all know, money is evil. I am rich spiritually. Everyday I pull out my genetically-engineered chakras and align them. Everyday is better than the last and one day I hope to visit my homeplanet of Earth, and if I align my girlfriend's chakras with mine we can travel faster than light and be there in about 3 years.

posted 04-06-2001 22:14           

You *really* don't want to live in the middle ages. I know that movies have heavily glamourized the idea, along with the heavy dosage of fantasy that everybody has (should have) read... but...

a) If you weren't landed and titled, you were treated like utter shit. This is DOUBLY true in Japan, unless you were like a fighting retainer of a landed and titled family.

b) refer back to the utter shit part. 'hot but poor?' no 'hot' required. If the lord's member is engorged, he's gonna rut on the nearest orifice that catches his fancy. Seriously. RHIP and all that.

c) say goodbye to your 40 hour work week.

d) Can you say 'personal hygiene?' Well, that's bad news, because noone from the Middle Ages can. Imagine being SEWN INTO YOUR CLOTHES, assuming you have enough money to buy decent ones. If you really are a dung-behind-the-ears peasant, then you wear the cheapest homespun imaginable, and you may or may not bother to scrape the pigshit off your pant legs before crawling into bed.

e) Eeeewww!

f) The free exchange of ideas like this just didn't happen.

posted 04-07-2001 01:33            

And yes, other animals kill for reasons other than to obtain food. I had a llama at work last night who was missing half of her face because of a group of dogs. Don't tell me they didn't have enough Alpo at home. Male lions will kill cubs they didn't sire to make the females go into heat again. Cats frequently kill and then do not eat prey. You can get into the argument that they are animals expressing natural tendencies or some biological drive, but you think humans don't have those? Predator or prey, everything has inherent drives and behaviors that all of the domestication or culture in the world will not totally eliminate.

I just want to say too, I don't want to live in 2500. Given our rate of population growth, the "natural world" will be well and truly raped and we'll be facing some epidemic of bubonic plague proportions worldwide. Except that it will probably be a virus. I don't want to be around when our exponential growth rate hits a brick wall. The only appeal to living in the past is that there were fewer people.

Mighty Mon, you're too cool quoting the Holy Grail. I must say a watery tart lobbing a sword has to be a better way of choosing a leader than the Florida voting system. But I digress.

posted 04-07-2001 02:05            

MightyMon is correct, 42 is the perfect number, the answer to life, the universe and everything.

And I agree with Bex, being a woman in those times would suck. Rape was not something that women worried might happen to them, but rather when would it happen next. Young girls tended to be married off to old nasty perverts, and had absolutely no say in what path her life took. I much prefer the times I live in. Although I think you're right about the moistened bent with a sword being a better way to choose a leader.

posted 04-07-2001 02:32            

quote:

---

And are you sure about the numbers printed on the outside wall of a passenger car?

---

Oh yes. A 205/75/R14 tire:

is 205mm wide across the top of the tread

has a 75% "aspect ratio" - meaning the sidewall height is 75% of the first number, so in this case the distance from the rim of the wheel to the tread of the tire is 75% of 205mm = 153.75mm

fits a 14" diameter wheel

Anything you hear about the first number being the circumference of the tire in inches, bla bla bla, bla bla bla, is a total crock of shit. Oddly enough, even most people who SELL tires for a living don't know what those fucking numbers mean - they just look shit up in The Big Chart in The Big Book Of Knowledge and make shit up afterwards.

So why would you want to know all this? Well, say you want to put lower profile tires on your car, but you don't want to fuck up the speedo. You have to keep the total tire height - which is NOT any of those numbers - as close as possible to the original; basically within about an inch difference.

So if you've got 205/75/R14's, your sidewall height is 205mm * 75% = 153.75mm. In inches, that's 153.75mm / 25.4 mm/in = 6.05 inches. Multiply that by two and add it to 14" of wheel diameter, and you come up with 26.1" total tire height.

Say you want to get some 15" wheels, what size tire will give you the same total tire height so your speedometer won't need recalibration? Well, you'll need (26.1 - 15) / 2 = 5.55 inches of sidewall height. That's 140.97mm of sidewall height. So what can we use for a tread width and aspect ratio to arrive at that sidewall height? Let's say we want to use about a 65% aspect ratio, sporty but not crazy-looking, we arrive at 140.97 / .65 = 216.87mm of tread width... very, very, very close to a 215/65/R15. Do a double check - 215 * .65 = 139.75mm, convert to inches and multiply by two, then add the wheel diameter and you arrive at 26.0", only one tenth of an inch shorter than the original tire/wheel combo. Sweet!

If you're looking for some SERIOUS meat on the back of a musclecar, you could go with a 255/55/R15. (Make sure your new wheels are wide enough for those tires - remember how 255 was the tread width in millimeters? 255mm = 10.4", so you want to get 15x10 rims. That's 15" tall by 10" wide...)

Um. Anyway, yeah, I'm pretty fuckin' sure about the numbers on the side of the tire.

posted 04-07-2001 08:38            

Zippy, see nowadays I can kick your ass for treating me like that and call it self-defense. I can leave you or divorce you without needing a huge burden of proof. There are places I can go for safety if needed. And most importantly, women can hold good jobs (although I argue the glass ceiling is still very much present) and there is not a stigma against being unmarried and self-sufficient above the age of 25. No longer do I need to move from my father's house to my husband's because a secretary's wages aren't enough to live on.

You know, I remember in about 1978 trying to decide between being a nurse or a secretary when I grew up. I felt like I was thumbing my nose at a male-dominated society when I decided to go into science. I gritted my teeth, clenched my little fists and vowed I could be whatever the hell I wanted to be.

Oddly enough, now I work in a field that is 99% female.

posted 04-07-2001 11:27           

The 255 in 255/55/15 refers to total width from sidewall to sidewall. Not edge of tread to other edge of tread.

quote:

---

Oh yes. A 205/75/R14 tire:

is 205mm wide across the top of the tread

---

Nope. Widest part of the sidewall to same point on the other side of the tire.

15x8 would be more suitable.

posted 04-07-2001 12:48            

MightyMon - You hurt me feelings!
-37 is a prime number though!
-37 backwards is larger than itself ( 73 )
-73 is also a prime number!
-Hehehe
-In 2500, the world will either be really shitty or really good. Either we will completely drain resources and have wars, or we will find a way to protect nature and all that jazz.
-PS9 all the way!

InThrees -
-oh well.
-would the lord even communicate with the poor?
-eh, oh well.
-I remember something about hygiene back then from some sort of video or something. It was bad, but only when we look at it from out P.O.V. If you weren't able to shower and wash your hair and all that stuff, and if everyone around you wasn't able to either, then it would be ok.
-!wwweeeeE
-Free exchange of ideas happened.. but if they were ever found out about, then something very bad would happen.

MightyMon - hehehe good quote.

Bex -
-I will agree about what you said about females of now and then.
-I haven't the slightest about the llama... The lions kill cubs for a reason, the cats might kill because of territorial disputes. Humans kill other humans without those causes. Columbine, there was no territorial dispute, there were no females to go into heat, but people were killed. I have yet to see a video or show about an animal that kills without a reason.
- I agree with you about the 2500 thing.

Bitchgoddess -
-I wouldn't be surprised.
-see above thing on the number 37

Zippy - hehehe.

Jimbo - ummmm... ok.

Weis - only thing I gatta say..
"mmm wheat"
-Another time period I wouldn't mind living in would be Ancient times, when people built massive shrines to gods and the such.

Bex -
-True dat about the first paragraph.

InThrees - ...? Who is right now? you or Jimbo?

posted 04-07-2001 13:27            

1) People were overcrowded in cities without effective sewers.
2) Rats were attracted to this human waste and shared housing with them.
3) Fleas carrying Yersinia pestis bacteria built up to enough numbers in these heavy populations of rats and began killing them off.
4) As the rats died, the fleas left the cooling bodies and often found a nearby human to bite instead, thus infecting them with plague.
5) Given certain circumstances, plague is able to switch from bloodborne to airborne transmission and all of a sudden people are dying everywhere. These bodies pile up ("bring out your dead! *clang* "Bring out your dead!") and people keep getting infected.
6) Continue until enough rats and people have died that infection isn't as probable.

Add in syphilis, leprosy, parasitic infections from fecally contaminated water supplies (still a huge problem in places like Africa), influenza, measles, mumps, polio, smallpox, death in childbirth and a whole slew of other problems and I'm really glad I was not alive back then. If I didn't die in childhood from some dread disease, I'd be married at age 14 and die in bed by about age 17, unless I had good wide hips. Then I'd end up spending most of my adult life pregnant or nursing with about 12 kids to feed, clothe and clean up after (no modern appliances!) and it would be almost as bad as being dead.

Now, I've been thinking about animal behavior. Maybe those dogs attacked the llama because domestication hasn't truly eliminated the killer instinct. Cats are attracted by movement. Even when they are well fed, they still want to kill small creatures. But I think behavioral problems come about when the normal balance is messed up. Animals behave "normally" when they live in their standard social groups. Take a herd animal and make it live alone and it develops behavioral problems. Similarly, an animal that tends to live alone will be stressed when put in close proximity with others. It cannot express normal territoriality.

So where do we see the worst human problems? In overcrowded cities where people don't have anything they can call their own and so start defending their "hoods". In kids that don't have normal social contact or poor parental training while they are young and so they don't develop a normal conscience. I think it's all pretty similar. Humans take a long time to develop mentally and emotionally and if that development isn't guided in a normal family situation, problems happen. I just don't think people realize anymore how important parental example is to kids.

Gah. That's enough for now.

posted 04-07-2001 15:24            

lucky for us that we live in an age where our children can learn everything they need to know online.

lucky for us that we live in an age where our kids can foster strong and healthy relationships with other wholesome children named suzy, from florida without ever having to meet.

lucky for us, that our children can take over their own emotional development without any input from us at the age of six. and thank god for that, because i just dont have the time to teach my children right from wrong.

posted 04-07-2001 19:53            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MightyMon:
I can also play the PS9 which is the closest thing to heaven that I'll ever know

---

"Teleport yours today!"

posted 04-07-2001 19:58            

That's what I would have said until I read Weis' post. Now that be some interesting stuff.

Now that I have read that, I withdraw my humans are the only animals that kill without good reason.

MightyMon - just curious.. did I strike a nerve with that Columbine comment?

Bex - I totally agree with you on the parental example thing. And no matter how hard I try to make myself think my parents did nothing for me, I am wrong. My parents kept me underwraps for most of my life. I live in a neighborhood in which the only way in and out of is a hill. I was forbidden to go up that hill until I was 16. 16 is also the age I left Catholic schools. I was in those schools from K-9 grades. My parents never swore around me... never set a bad example (except for smoking, and exposing me to second hand smoke from the ages of 3-15). Those things probably factor in to the reasons why I am a very opinionated, anti-social, spiteful, but pacifistic person.

posted 04-08-2001 00:56            

Bah I say to all that. There were very simple reasons for Columbine, as I stated before. That kids did it should be no surprise --- high school is a pressure-cooker environment, where the pressure is to be cool and fit in. And those two obviosuly didn't, and they went apeshit. So what? It's Darwinism at its finest. Or rather, the equilibrium of nature kicking in.

The way I see it, when there are too many of any one species, a greater proportion of said species are gonna go bad. It's Nature's way of cutting the numbers. Sure, you might say that that's what microbes and bacteria are for, and you'd be right. But see, I think Nature's a cruel bitch. We have the capacity for high-level thought. We also have the capacity to be the cruelest animals on earth sometimes. We also have the capacity to raise really bratty and/or fucked-up kids. So I think Nature took all three of these components and combined them.

I think by now you're probably looking for an explanation for my thoughts. When Columbine happened I was shocked. The initial reports put the casualties upwards of 25, with pipe bombs everywhere, all of that. I sat down and wrote this really emotional spur-of-the-moment essay of sorts on it and was really proud of it. And then, the more I learned about Columbine and the other school shootings, the less I cared.

You know why? Because I realized it was inevitable. Because I suddenly remembered what high school was like. I wasn't the object of scorn nor was I the dispenser of such, but I saw what it was like for some people. Not that they're justified for shooting people, not that what happened at Columbine wasn't a horrific event, but that it was bound to happen. Kids have guns; kids get pissed. Whatcha gonna do?

And if you think I'm bad and/or insensitive, you're probably right. For much much better education in these ideas, refer to The Misanthropic Bitch and Tales from the Hellmouth.