posted 04-03-2001 16:08         

Now, it's not that I'm a huge fan of China really. It's more that I can see the hypocracy that the US pulls in the world political arena because we are the big boy on the block. I mean, let's face it. Even if we were flying in international air-space as we say were, how would our country react if a Chinese "survelliance" plane were circling around in the Gulf of Mexico, between Florida and Texas, always staying just outside of the 12 mile border of our waterways over international waters and monitoring any radio communications they could receive. Do you think we wouldn't try to intimidate the hell out of them? Or shoot them down? And if we did shoot them down, do you think our media would mention anything about how horrible it was that our government was holding Chinese nationals or that our government was creating a international incident or would they even mention it at all?

This one-sided reporting of our view to the public here in the USA should stop. We are considered the bully by most of the world, and if you have any question why you should keep this incident in mind. While expecting everyone else to respect our policies of spying, coercion and manipulating corrupt and totalitarian governments, we are being perceived as a "do what we say, not what we do" society by the rest of the world. As long as our media pushes the government approved propaganda that shows us in the best possible light while villifying the relatively justifiable actions of foreign governments, the people of our country will not have any reason to question our government policies or actions. Cosequently, while the people are content and satisfied with the belief that our government is not just benevolent but also justified in its actions and policies, and as long as the public is unaware as to how opportunistic, hypocritical, and insideous our governments actions and policies are, the population of the United States will see no reason to work toward changing these realities in a way that will improve our standing in the global community. While the animosity against us grows, we will continue to be faced with terribly unpleasant actions against Americans on our own soil and abroad, both through terrorist acts and through direct actions and saber rattling by governments.

Anyways, that's my two cents, even if it all rambled there for a bit. Ciao!

Puzzling

posted 04-03-2001 18:37            

"Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country did to you." KMFDM - Dogma

Propaganda is evil. A method to influence the masses. "Brain control" I suppose. The more the gov't can control people's "patriotism" the more soldiers they would have for a war ( ages 18 to something, males only, of course ).

War, of course, would increase advertisements for War Bonds ( like they did in WWII ), and sales of those would mean more money to the gov't, which in turn can be used to pay major companies to shut down production of the normal product in order to make weapons or parts used in weapons. This of course will be needed around the clock, so more jobs would be opened up, bringing the unemployement rate would decrease. Schools (mainly Public Education.. err.. Public Indoctrination ) would start teaching more on previous wars and all about the new technology.

Ummm.... what was I talking about? Oh yea, I was going to talk about the "little changing details" comment made by Puzzling. When the horror of Columbine was first unleashed, news reports had students tell them what happened. One female student saw 4 or 5 different shooters, one of which was older looking, had bushy eyebrows, and didn't goto the school. She also said the shooters' (Harris and Klebold) eyes were glazed over and that they seemed out of it, but smiling. When the Army or SWAT or whatever came by.. they offered "grief counseling(sp?)". After the kids who gave reports similar to that girl's one, their stories changed. Into the 2 main shooters, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold(sp?). Now, when you take into account all the bombs found in and on the school.. and all the guns and ammo they had.. it's nearly impossible for TWO teenages to bring all that stuff into a school without SOMEONE noticing. Also, the Army or SWAT team members that were there waited for roughly 4 hours before they entered the school. Aren't they able to stop 2 teenagers? Why did they wait so long? They can tango with a terrorist group.. but not 2 high schoolers?

Went w-a-y off topic again.. so let me get back on track.

The media will distort information if it'll bring up more viewers(like the China thing) or if there is some sort of a conspiracy there(like Columbine? one can only guess)

posted 04-03-2001 20:12            

The two most recent ones were one about the Red Scare of the 40-50s and one about WWII...

And in this context, it reminds me that it was really only 50 years ago that there were movies like "I married a communist", and posters that said "Don't rest until every stinking jap is dead", and so on. It's not the distant past, all our parents remember it..

And one part of me thinks that could never happen again, while another part thinks, how much of it is going on right now? and who says we could never regress to a point we were at so near in the past??

posted 04-04-2001 09:38            

It was a bunch of middle-aged men and women with big, bold signs saying "god hates fags" "homosexuals are violent" "AIDS is god's curse" "www.godhatesfags.com" (which really exists, horrifyingly enough) and many others.

A few years ago, a motel housing one of the best music venues in town, a kick-ass dance club and my favorite bar burned down due to a cigarette in a garbage can. An off-duty fireman, well known for his anti-gay sentiments, sat outside chanting "burn baby burn" with his KIDS while the fire raged. Why? Because it was a gay-friendly establishment, the dance club had drag nights on occasion and there was a pretty off-color gay bar in the basement. People living in the motel lost their homes and many people lost jobs. They were in tears watching everything go up in smoke and this guy was laughing.

Now, say what you will about homosexuality. I know a lot of people are uncomfortable with it, but I have a lot of friends, male and female, who are gay. It pisses me off to hear someone say they wish my friends would get AIDS and die, or that they're a curse against humanity, when they are some of the most wonderful people I know.

If you're going to hate someone, hate them on an individual basis. Someone hurts you or your friends or family, it's ok to think they are scum. But to pick on someone you've never met because of who they choose to sleep with is just plain wrong. And I've noticed the guys that get the most worked up about it are guys that any decent gay man, and most women wouldn't even look at twice. It's not like they can't restrain themselves and will rip your clothes off without any warning.

I just wish these people would get a clue. What is so terrible about a bunch of people they're too scared to get to know that would make them want to freeze their asses off at 7am waving signs at commuters.

This rant of course can apply to just about any type of bigotry. I apologize for rambling slightly since I just got off working third shift but dammit this is important to me. Don't go picketing against my friends.

posted 04-04-2001 14:28            

1:]Homeless person who asks for money, then buys alcohol or smokes or drugs.

2:]Guy who has a job, but pretends he's a Catergory 1er(above).

3:]Those who mootch off of other people for longer than a period of time. ( Some people actually do need welfare and the such until they can get back on thier feet, that is understandable ).

4:]Those whose IQs are less than 70. The normal IQ is 90-110. There is an exception, however. If that person has a special skill or talent, ( some people with low IQs have them ), then you can live.

5:]People hooked onto machines in order to live. Not the ones who are aware of thier surroundings.. the ones who are oblivious. This case mostly happens to loved ones that were in an accident. If you truely love them, wouldn't you want them to die instead of relying on machines to keep them alive? They will never have the spark they had before, they will never be as happy as they were before, so why keep them live like that?

6:]Fucking morons who ruin thier own lives by doing stupid things. If you do something stupid and hurt yourself, don't sue the company that made that item, just die.

7:]Those with criminal impulses. This one is tricky. Not all criminals should die. But those who rape people, kill people, torture people, and do nasty things to people should die. Now, here's the sick and twisted part, to some, anyways. Eye for an Eye. If you kill someone by tying them up and tossing them in water so they drown, that, is how you die. If you rape someone, you are raped ( by some evil machine or something.. no human would ever do that to another. ) You torture someone by cutting them, rubbing salt into the cut, and then putting citridc acid in the wound. Followed by breaking joints and ripping skin off, that is how you die.

That's all I can think of. Now, before you get all pissed off at me, think for a second. If those people died, the world wouldn't be so crowded. Crime would be at a minimum. It would be an over all better place. Of course, those things will never happen because people will say "that's immoral". Well.. my answer to that :

Who the fuck cares?

If it'll make this world better, then do it. Why would someone protect a pedophile that's raped and killed 13 kids? They would get lethal injection in a couple years, of course. But still, they would be wasting away on death row, using up our tax money. Lethal injection isn't a suiting death for a person who would literaly rip the insides of kids up in order to achieve orgasm, then kill them. He should have a fucking huge metal pole stuffed up his ass until he can't take it anymore. Then it should happen 12 more times. Then he will be killed in a fashion that is most reflected from the murders. THAT would send a message, not this "you will have a needle pump poison into you" one we have now.

Ahem. Back to the topic. People who will hate others for the sheer reason of race or gender or prefence are morons. No one likes to be sterotyped... I know I don't. The one thing that strikes me, is that comment about God. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. In Sodom and Gammorah, people raped visitors and guests. When God sent the 2 angels there, the townspeople wanted to rape them. The people who let the Angels be at his house said "No, these are my guests. Entertain yourself with my two virgin daughters instead." Now, how would those picketers like it if we raped thier virgin daughters? They would be pissed. They use the story of Sodom and Gammorah as a reason to why God hates gays. The angels were sent to destroy Sodom and Gammorah because of thier sexual habits. Not just the gay raping, but the virgin giving as well. So, if they got pissed, you could say "Virgins are God's blessing" to justify what you did. If they object, then you could say "Then how can you say AIDS is God's curse? You follow the Bible, but only the parts that relate to how you feel." That would either make them confused or pissed even more. "How can you say that about the Bible and God?!" "How can you say that about gays and AIDS?" FA-FUCKING-BAM!

Anyways.. I went w-a-y off topic and swore alot, expressed views that are my own, and will probably offend some, and entertain others. Just keep in mind, these are my opinions, it doesn't mean I'll follow through will the things I say. If they do offend you, please don't tell me about it, I won't care that you can't accept that other people don't share the same views as you.

posted 04-04-2001 14:40           

quote:

---

6:]Fucking morons who ruin thier own lives by doing stupid things. If you do something stupid and hurt yourself, don't sue the company that made that item, just die.

---

Right on DOE, I totally agree with you, but more so on that point alone. It reminds me of the people here that, in the summer time, decide to climb a mountain in shorts and a t-shirt. Upon reaching the top they realize that they are walking in snow and freezing their idiot asses off. So, the local rescue team and chopper head off to save their stupid asses, and a rescueman dies to save the person(s) involved. Those people deserve to freeze and die.

And don't give me that crap that "Oh it was a mistake and you're too harsh Talpacc" because it's not a mistake, it's common-fucking-sense. You don't climb the highest mountain in the region to the top IN SHORTS! Just looking at the top you'll see SNOW! And, any person can tell you, that it must be at least 30 degrees or below or the snow would melt.

posted 04-04-2001 14:47            

These "hunters" wait for hours with a loaded gun, decked out in all camo(gun included) and use a product to reproduce the sound of a turkey. Then, they fire, and kill it. How the FUCK is that hunting? You WAIT in one spot and CALL them to you. If anyone is hunting, its the damn turkey. Back when humans had to survive from the land, we had to chase down things to kill them. If you can call someone that uses tactics like that a "hunter" I pity you.

So, instead, the rescue chopper should goto them, and say "If you can survive up here for the night, we will rescue you." Remove the cost of the rescue ride if they survive the night. It would teach them a lesson, but then again, since money is so valued, if you had to PAY to be saved, losing that money would be leasson enough.

posted 04-04-2001 17:07            

We need someone who's not a politician, someone who can think for themself.

posted 04-04-2001 20:35         

now i'm not going to accuse anyone of staging this as a pr stunt for bush, a little wagging of the dog or something, but it seems that his political allies are using this as an opportunity to bring everyone under the tent. they're not just putting up defiance to china, they're suggesting that the best thing we can do in a situation like this is to throw blind faith to the "winner" of an undecided election. the shitty thing is bush's opponents are toeing this line as well, fearful of being "unamerican" by suggesting that the us bend to the will of beijing.

i really don't think this could come to war. the global community has done some pretty shitty things to each other sonce wwii but tempers have been kept cool by two words, "nuclear fucking destruction". so if any more than sabre rattling is done it'll be some regional conflict that us and china sit on opposite sides of and keep pushing until we're done pissing on each other.

posted 04-04-2001 22:17            

"This is the way the world ends
not with a bang, but with a whimper."

Biological and chemical weapons are now.
Possibly some sort of mental ones too( can we say MK Ultra? HAARP? ).

Why would we want to rally behind Mr. Bush? He is but a pawn, and Chaney be the player. Just lookit George W's face, he looks like someone who is lost. He is nothing more than an impressionable child who is running the country.

If this ever did escalate into a war, it would be massive.

Here's a tidbit I found while checking out http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.com ... http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/4/1/234033.shtml . I remembered I saw the "Echelon is listening" thingy in the textbox at the top of PenIs. That would explain why the US is all upset about the plane.

Not related, but still somewhat cool. http://pub25.ezboard.com/fsurfingtheapocalypsefrm4.showMessage?topicID=25.topic

I hope a war won't break out from all this.. I don't feel like being recruited.. I'm already hassled enough as is.

If the US wanted to make this end in a nice way, they wouldn't give two shits about that plane. That's the problem, the US is to materialistic and overprotective. Like a mother who loves her kids to death and watches nothing but shop-at-home stations.

Now, I aska question. Is our gov't becoming more and more Orwellian? Things are being done without our knowledge, we can't express ourselves, we are being used. Our tax dollars go towards -something- that the gov't has control over. I hate to say this, but Area 51. Now, before you get all "But Demon, aliens don't exist" thing, let me say this isnt about aliens.. hehe. I could care less if there are such things, they are pety. I am talking about how it "doesn't exist" yet they are nullifying that statement everytime they say it. People photograph it.. the gov't buys more and more land around it.. there are major securities systems out there. Yet nothing is out there. If the gov't were to be more open about things, they wouldn't have to care about secrecy, which costs big bucks. One day, they'll reveal Area 51 and it'll be some sort of new energy soruce. We'll be like "wow, another source of power" and that'll be it. No need to keep things locked up so much that it uses up OUR money. If they need money, get it from the rich. NO man needs billions of dollars ( sure Gates, you give 17 billion to a good cause.. but yer still sitting on another 50 billion ). Anyways.. if the US allowed China to look at the plane, there wouldn't be this entire thing. I mean.. its a fucking plane. It has things on it. Secretive things. Our debt would go down if we didnt have such things. But we need to watch everything all the time.

I don't even know half of what I said in the above rant thingy. I just know I'm tired. I should goto sleep before I completely ramble on and on about trivial things you guys dont care about.

Like that one soda machine at school. It got caught up on a lemonade, so it didnt vend it. My friend put a dollar into that machine, didnt give him a drink, he hit the coin return, didnt give back he coins. He came back all pissed.. then I heard change fall out. I went over there and got $2 in quarters. So I (having no life and a pathetic factor of 4000) waits until more people do that. My friends joined in. We got $4. Plus I was able to treat myself to some eye candy

posted 04-05-2001 09:42           

quote:

---

...how would our country react if a Chinese "survelliance" plane were circling around in the Gulf of Mexico, between Florida and Texas, always staying just outside of the 12 mile border of our waterways over international waters and monitoring any radio communications they could receive.

---

I have to point out that the United States has relied on the validity of the '12 mile sovereign' zone for longer than I've been alive. Anything outside of 12 miles is considered international territory.

What does this mean with regards to your question? The US would grin and bear it, that's what. We're not stupid, we know swords often cut both ways.

Anyway, as far as the 'spy plane' incident goes, I find it disturbing that China would claim that our lumbering behemoth of a prop driven passenger liner from 1950-something would have the agility to strike their jet.

Yeah, you're right, no one has come out and said that specifically, but read between the lines. China has said that this is our fault, and the text of their statement does imply this.

Then they kidnap the crew of said E-3, and take their sweet time before so much as allowing our diplomats on site access to them. Nice.

China is going to be a BIG problem for the United States, and the rest of the world as well. I firmly believe that it's going to get a LOT worse.

posted 04-05-2001 13:10           

Anyway, according to international law, 'spying', or reconnaisance from outside a nation's 12 mile sovereign border is entirely legal.

Also, in times of peace, distressed vehicles and crew of another nation that are forced to land in your nation are considered sovereign territory of the owning nation. China should not have held the crew, or boarded the plane.

What happens when you flub international law and generally behave like a brat? You're considered an 'outlaw nation.'

It's interesting that Slick Willy called China 'our strategic partner' while Dubya has classified China as a 'strategic competitor.' One of these kids has his feet on the ground, while the other is indulging a flight of make-believe fancy.

posted 04-05-2001 23:31            

Aargh, never mind, this was going to be a serious post and then I realized that everyone would take it as sarcasm. What a letdown.

posted 04-06-2001 02:00            

But I still think America is about the greatest country in the world. There's shitloads of problems in every country, but I strongly suspect America has more capability of solving its problems than most other places.

On the other places, in the areas of service and politeness, Japan has got the homeland beat.

fen

posted 04-06-2001 10:12            

What I want to know is what the hell is so special about this state and the Wisconsin Dells of all places, that someone would want to trek here from China? What is wrong with Chicago? Trying to herd a bunch of fat midwesterners in swimsuits through a concession stand is hardly a challenge.

posted 04-06-2001 10:32            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bex:
Trying to herd a bunch of fat midwesterners in swimsuits through a concession stand is hardly a challenge.

---

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Herding a bunch of fat midwesterners in swimsuits through a concession stand (or amusement ride) is an ENORMOUS challenge, because large groups of people in amusement parks have the collective IQ of cattle, the collective stubbornness of pack mules, and the collective level of cooperative activity of a herd of cats.

They (the Chinese folks) should be going to Disneyworld in Florida instead, though. Jesus CHRIST does the Six Foot Rat ever have the psychology and technology of "friendly" crowd control down to a well-tuned science...

posted 04-06-2001 11:40            

I like going to sleep, safe in my bed at night, knowing that we have fleets of million-dollar killing machines just waiting to defend my lazy ass. And fleets of million-dollar missiles pointed at all the people I distrust.

See what I was saying about everyone thinking this was sarcasm? But it's not!!

posted 04-06-2001 14:38           

All kidding aside, you maintain your weapons and hope you never have to use them. However, you train yourself IN the use of them, because if the time comes, that's what they exist for.

Personally, I think national and personal armament are no different.

Why hasn't anyone tried to invade the land of the free and the home of the brave? Simply put, it's because we are one of the best defended parcels of land on this planet.

What is one contributing factor (personal opinion) to the skyrocketing crime rate? Criminals view marks walking down the street as 'opportunities' instead of 'threats'. If you were a mugger, and you knew there was a good chance that 70% of the people you encountered had a lethal weapon of some sort, how would that affect your work ethic?

No difference.

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom - this I firmly believe.