posted 04-18-2001 20:27         

And Bex - you're not alone. I have many more guy friends than girls, especially when I was in high school. We're just cool that way. We make the best girlfriends.

------------------
One for sorrow two for joy
Three for girls four for boys
Five for silver six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told

posted 04-18-2001 20:47            

But honestly, I have very few female friends and a herd of male friends by choice as well. I think it sucks that women get so competitive and bitchy with each other.

Anyone ever read ElfQuest? Life would be so much easier if recognition existed.

posted 04-18-2001 21:05            

The *one* time where I actually liked someone as more than a friend was with my "way-cool-she'll-kick-your-ass" friend. Me being the foolish, silly, idiotic and (insert more insults here) friend decides, "hey, why not?" and bang. We haven't talked in hmmm, four months? I now know that I should NEVER EVER do that, ever.

posted 04-18-2001 22:01            

DOE- here's the deal. You're in high-school.. everything's fucked up. All the guys are obsessing on girls, and the girls are obsessing on guys, but no-one knows how to play the game. Like a tennis match, but no-one knows who's supposed to serve to whom. You gotta take our word for it- everything calms down when your 25 not because people change, but because it's not all new and crazy anymore, and people are on their third or fourth partner, so they've got the serve down, and they're trying to finish out a set.

But that "$50 for dinner and a movie" bullshit- that's not life, that's Saved by the Bell, dude. What are the odds of you spending $50 to go to dinner and a movie with one of your buddies? zero? So if you buy into this whole "slick your hair back and go to the malt shop" kind of Happy Days trip, then you're buying into Great Relationship Lie #1, which is that the way to be happy with a girl is by pretending to be someone you're not, and acting in some way other than how you normally act.

Now, I'm guessing you're about 16 or 17.. a fine age to be. I'm also guessing you've not had a grilf yet, which is fine. I'm guessing you're also a virgin, which is fine by me (c.f. GRL #2: sex=happiness). So if you're all in a bind to get laid, well, I understand-- its not just you, there's biology there, and if you make a mistake, you make a mistake. All part of the game, and so on. Nothing I can help you with there, except to quote Top Dollar's sister- "be careful what you wish for".

But if you wanna be happy with a girl, there's only one way about it- you gotta keep doing the stuff you like, hanging out and doing whatever it is you dig, with your guy friends and your girl friends. Because you'll never click with a girl you can't hang around with- the reason being that a relationship is about 5% dates and 95% hanging around. Now, if I'm any judge of character, these criteria will eliminate most of the girls at your school, and all of the social elite. That's fine. You don't want them. Like a pet komodo dragon-- cool idea, but what would you do with it once you got it home?

So what you do is, clip and save this post, and read it over when you're not sure what to do. Because its not that you have to do what I'm telling you-- the important thing is to maintain the attitude of what I'm telling you. If you worry about chix0rs as some mysterious, scary thing, you'll spend your life either alone or in jail as a stalker. But if you have a healthy outlook- that girls and guys are made for each other, and get together sooner or later, then everything clicks into place. It's very zen when you get down to it. You can't grasp water in your fist, you can only flow along with it.

Sorry to be so bossy, but I have great, healthy relationships. On my third girlfriend, never dated a girl for less than two years. Ask me, and that's the way to go.

posted 04-18-2001 22:44         

I know this only confuses your situation, Demon, but all flames aside, I do appreciate your situation. And I don't think the Zen of Fen will help much. Way too many obscure and useless analogies there. Just be yourself, until someone else likes the way you are - you'll just know. Period.

I'm sorry, fenomas, but you sound EXACTLY like an old boyfriend of mine, who, in his mind, was the best relationship to be had, but in reality was not. He always had this "enlightening" advice for a mutual friend of ours, which only made him sound patheticly self-obsorbed. No offense to you, of course. Just got horrible flashbacks there for a second.

------------------
One for sorrow two for joy
Three for girls four for boys
Five for silver six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told

posted 04-19-2001 01:22            

Koko- you're a girl? I didn't know that.
I didn't follow you. My post was egotistical? I know it was opinionated, but I didn't know it was egotistical.
Listening to DOE just reminds me a lot of stuff I felt at his age, so I feel like passing on what I wish I knew then. Stuff like "try hard on the SAT, but be aware that the it will cease all relevance in your life the day you start college".

And life IS zen.

posted 04-19-2001 15:48         

Fen - who said I was a girl? heh heh
Kidding. And I do agree that life is Zen, but it has to be mastered. And I am sure none of us here has truly mastered our lives. If we had readers who were in their sixties, we could hear about Zen, but until then... we are merely trying to achieve Zen. Agreed?

------------------
One for sorrow two for joy
Three for girls four for boys
Five for silver six for gold
Seven for a secret never to be told

posted 04-19-2001 20:38            

DOE- Are you planning on going to college? Because if you go to a school with more than 1000 students, there WILL be an anime club, which WILL have female members, albeit only three of them. Give or take. No, seriously, college is a big turning point, because people start grouping because of similar interests, rather than just because they have math together.
However, I didn't mean to say you need to find a girl who likes all the same things as you. She needn't have ever heard of Hayao Miyazaki as long as you and her get along well enough that you can introuduce her. And of course, when she pulls out the stamp collection that is the joy of her life, then if you're not into that, it may not work well. But if you're both decent people who are at ease together, that other stuff tends to work out.

posted 04-19-2001 21:02            

Hussain - Don't get me wrong, being the ultra-introvert that I am, I -could- live alone forever, but I dunno, I just don't want to. I see these people who have tons of fun because they are dating. I want to experience that too. In 8th or 9th grade I believe, there was this preppy jock kid. He flaunted his richness so horribly. If I had the sarcastic edge I have now and all my thoughts I have now, but back then, I would have assaulted him so badly. Anyways, he dated this girl I somewhat had a thing for. I found out through my connections that he hit her because she wouldn't give him head. What a fucking bastard. Man, if I had a spine, he would have been laid out. There is this jock who must have some sort of stupid disease because there is no way he can be normal. He's got this weird shaped head, and these weird crossed eyes that make him look even more stupid and confused. He is a jock though, so he gets chicks. It's so sad. Hopefully when I goto college I won't have to deal with those kind as much as I do now.

posted 04-19-2001 23:22            

Half my gripe about the "just friends" situation I am always in is it takes about two days. I meet some guy, we talk, we have a great time, we start hanging out, he never actually asks me out or makes a move and suddenly we're great friends with no hope of dating. Maybe I need to wear lower cut shirts. Dunno.

Demon,

I had NOT ONE SINGLE DATE in high school. Not one. I missed every dance. Never went to prom or homecoming. I was on the Principal's Advisory Council and the math team. I competed in French. And I was so shy I would go days without talking to people except for answering questions in class. I was astounded when I went to my H.S. reunion in November and there were people there who remembered who I was.

High school is such an abnormal situation, it's a wonder anyone comes out alive. It's like social boot camp. The majority of people go through this weird conformity phase where you're not cool unless you're a carbon copy of the trendsetters. Thankfully, most people grow out of this. And when they do, they start exploring and discovering new talents and new interests and things get interesting.

If all else fails, find some older woman who likes young guys. Virginity can be a selling point.

posted 04-20-2001 03:50         

You cannot achieve Zen.

You can only Zen or be Zen.

So, I'm going to compete with fen for obscure advice which will probably not make any sense unless you read it over a thousand times:

Your suffering is caused by your desire. Fullfillment of this desire will not end your suffering. Your desire will simply refocus itself, and once again you will suffer. Desire does not go away when it is fullfilled, it simply becomes more demanding.

In order to end your suffering, you must identify and eliminate your desire. This we cannot help you with. You must find and follow your own path.

How's that for arcane?

Won't help you get chicks, but it'll make it easier to deal.

posted 04-20-2001 04:28            

Go to college, it matters little what you study, the life experience you will gain will far outweight the education.. believe me. Most importantly take care of yourself.... oh I feel like I'm in a therapy group but as my mom would say "no one can love you until you love yourself"--- sorry so cheesy.

posted 04-20-2001 04:42            

Demon- Hayao Miyazaki is the most famous man in Anime, beside Osamu Tezuka (creator of Atom [aka Astroboy]). Miyazaki runs Studio Ghibli, and is the chief creative force behind Princess Mononoke, Witch Delivery Service, Laputa, Nausicaa and the Valley of Wind, [My neighbor] Totoro, Mimi o sumaseba (don't know the english- "If you listen closely"?), and probably a score of others I can't bring to mind. If you've seen any of the above, you'll know his style at a glance. He's famous for creating modern fairy tales.

Psyci- That's not arcane, it's a textbook description of the basis of buddhism. And zen is not a verb in English or Japanese. I meant that relationships were like zen in that the surest way to fail is by trying as hard as possible to succeed.

Not to start another thread, btw, but I can't help thinking the "desire is suffering" basis of buddhism sounds like a crock of shit. For example, take the koan about the general who bumps his cabinet and knocks over a valuable teapot (teacup?) - one of his favorite heirlooms. He catches it just before it crashes to the floor, and feels greatly relieved. Then, he suddenly realizes how much emotion he was attaching to a worthless physical object. Freed from desire, he tosses the cup over his shoulder and lets it break on the floor behind him.

That story just seems to run counter to everything I think about human nature- surely the way to happiness can't be as an unemotional robot.
Of course there are other koan that speak of warmth and emotion, and many I find very instructive. But still.

fen

posted 04-20-2001 13:51         

The "desire is suffering" thing is pretty difficult to understand, lots of crazy situations.

For the one you gave: he has a desire for objects to not fall and break. When things fall and break, he suffers, because he has this desire. Obviously, things *do* fall and break, and he cannot change that. The only way he can end his suffering is to eliminate his desire for everything to stay put and in one piece.

Ideally, he would want things not to fall and break, but when it does happen (which is most certainly will), it won't trouble him, because he does not desire life to be the way it is not.

For the particular teapot, his attachment to the teapot is his problem. He can enjoy and value the teapot, but if he is attached to it, it causes a problem. In any case, there's no reason he should destroy the teapot - if he smashes it, he will still remain attached to the memory of the teapot, and will suffer when he thinks of it.

The idea isn't to be an unemotional robot. Actually a lot of emotions become heighened, like everything becomes more enjoyable, when suffering is eliminated.