posted 06-15-2001 01:09            

However, I am not defending child molesters. I feel it is a horrible thing to do to a kid that is not yet old enough to knee a dirty old man in the nuts. (or woman for that matter... they exist too, only god knows how they get their rocks off with a 5 year old).

However... For rehab to work (drugs or otherwise) the person must want to be rehabilitated. Thats why so many rehab centers only will accept the people who walk in the door alone, fill out the paperwork, and still continue on into the center unaided (without coercion).

I agree with you that prison sentences for most drug offenses are way too harsh, though. Lets give the kid selling half an ounce of weed the same punishment as the guy selling a pound of cocaine!! That makes perfect sense!!

I just picture a bunch of bitter, little men in a musty office saying things like:
"W3 aer teh justis depaertmant. feer us!!!!1!@1!!11"

Of course... those are the same men I see making the rules on who lives or dies. Dont you all worry that the same men that make the drug sentencing laws also determine laws on who lives or dies?

-Chris

posted 06-15-2001 04:04            

Instead of focusing millions of dollars (trying to)kill someone who abused one child, why aren't we focusing energies on saving other children?

The answer:
Because there's no big bad man responsible for starving all of those children. We need a simple, easy answer to our problems and in this case its the death penalty.

I daresay these people deserve what they get...BUT:

• I was not there.
  
• Who the hell am I to decide who gets sodomized and who gets killed?
  
• If I cant bring myself to care for millions of starving children in Africa, THEN WHAT THE FUCK DO I CARE ABOUT A FEW THOUSAND OTHER CHILDREN I'LL NEVER MEET? These are still children right? Why is one worthy of my care and another is not?
  

Sometimes we just have to look beyond "the bad man touched me here". Yes, the man should be punished if he's guilty. Yes, if it were my child I'd probably want to kick the shit out of him.

I wish death on no one. A persons time on earth is not mine to judge or end prematurely. Except for those damn fetuses. Get 'em young I always say.

-Chris

Hmm... maybe the death penalty CAN solve all of our problems... yeah...
When I take over the world I'll see to it with much haste. "Off with her head"

posted 06-15-2001 05:21            

"Hey, look at me, I'm On The Side Of Good because I say child molesters suck! Wheee!"

Gets kinda old, really.

Yeah, child molesters suck. So do adult molesters. Wtf does that have to do with whether or not you trust the government to kill people, or keeping OTHER people from getting molested/abused/deprived?

Get the hell off the blind look-at-me-I'm-so-nobly-horrified kick and start thinking about how to keep the REST of the kids - OR adults, which contrary to popular belief, are people with lives worth protecting as well - from getting victimized.

• we imprison, and sometimes execute, child molesters
  
• while imprisoned, child molesters get specifically targeted for HIDEOUS abuse by other inmates
  
• this situation has been the case for decades - arguably, for centuries
  
• IT'S NOT MAKING THE PROBLEM GO AWAY.

Insanity [n]. doing things the way you've always done them, and expecting different results

posted 06-15-2001 15:34            

quote:

---

It is obvious that none of you have children, nor have you been in contact with kids who have been sexually abused.

---

The only thing that's obvious is that you have preconceived notions about what is and is not, and you aren't willing to examine them.

Translation: you're dead wrong in the quoted statement, which in turn makes you dead wrong about your assumptions about what it "must mean" to be close to children, and even to children who have been victimized.

Quit confusing your own personal feelings with universal, concrete reality. There IS a difference.

SHIT. I clicked the wrong icon - "edit" instead of "reply." I'm really, REALLY sorry about that BG, I would never have done that intentionally.

posted 06-16-2001 17:12            

I'm curious, have you been in contact with abused kids? I have, I sat through many group therapy sessions when I was a teenager with teenagers who had been abused physically and sexually. My reason for being there was completely different, but I was there to hear about Daddy pimping his 12 year old out to his buddies. And yes, my feelings in this area are very personal, as they are to most parents. My personal opinion is that people who victimize children should be punished as harshly as possible.

posted 06-17-2001 04:41            

People who dump chemicals into the rivers and landfills are criminals too, are they not? We let them go free (or escape with fines) all the fucking time.

I'm also quite sure that if you were the parent of a starving child somwhere in Africa (or hell, the US.) that you would feel that was a problem with at least as much evil as "Daddy pimped me out when I was 12".

I'd like to hear a few opinions on the following questions:

1) Why is abusing children (physically or sexually) worse than raping/abusing adults?

2) Why is it so easy to say "Well, if you had children __________________" I mean, you can put arguments in there for anything. "Well if you had children you would KNOW that the tax breaks big corporations get are just wrong"

3) Why should I care about a few thousand kids I'll never meet when I can not care about a few million that are dying of other causes just as easily?

4) How do you do that thing you do that only you do so well?

posted 06-17-2001 06:16            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bitchgoddess:
I'm curious, have you been in contact with abused kids?

---

Yes. My ex-wife was an abused child, which is probably most of if not entirely the reason she turned into a fucking psycho as an adult. I've known several other women, and a few folks who still were children who were abused children - including an ex-girlfriend who had herself been an abused child, and then wound up having to throw a brother-in-law in jail when she made the horrible discovery that he'd abused one of her kids.

None of this, or my own complete and utter loathing for victimizers of every stripe, convinces me that a bunch of "righteous" blathering on about killing people is going to fix the problem. The people who would be deterred by fear of capital punishment are ALREADY being deterred by fear of long periods of imprisonment - let's face it, there just isn't anybody out there thinking "well fuck, I don't mind getting thrown into a big concrete dungeon with a bunch of homo ass-rapists who will all have it in for me ESPECIALLY for the next 10 or 20 years of my life, but LETHAL INJECTION? Shit, I guess I better not rape that kid after all!"

It's not that I don't loathe abusers - believe me, I do. Having eventually had to divorce someone I loved very much because there was just NO FUCKING WAY to work through the issues she had due to her own childhood abuse - this after putting up with more than a year of violent behavior from her directed at ME, mind you - I seriously, seriously doubt that you loathe abusers any more than I do.

The difference is that I don't think that a whole bunch of hoo-rah about how much they all need to die is going to fix the problem. The fact is, by the time they "need killin'", SOMEBODY'S ALREADY HAD THEIR LIFE WRECKED. What we need to do is figure out a way to FIX the problem, not just flail about blindly and - basically - violently expressing how much we think it sucks.

'Cause that's all this hoo-rah over execution vs. a couple decades' imprisonment really is - a bunch of people flailing blindly in an attempt to express their sentiments. A solution, it ain't.

posted 06-17-2001 10:26            

1) Because adults are able to handle the emotional issues easier than children, and are better equipped to defend themselves. Rapists of adults also tend to be strangers rather than someone in a position of trust who ruins all of the relationships that child will have for the rest of his/her life. I feel for women who have been raped, however they are able to get themselves in to programs, and the stigma of rape has been removed. Children believe what adults tell them, for the most part, and can be convinced that if they ask for help bad things will happen.

2)In this case it's true. There are some things you just don't know until youhave kids of yourown. I certainly wasn't completely prepared for it all. You cannot understand how another person feels until you have been in their shoes. If you plan on having kids, you'll get it someday, if not, you'll still think I'm a bitch. Either way, I don't care, as long as my girls are safe.

3)I never said you had to. The topic was brought up by someone other than me. I simply said that pedophiles belong in prison. Not that you had to put them there.

4) I just do.

Again Jim, you have mistunderstood me. I never said that pedophiles should be put to death. I do not think the death penalty is fitting for the crime. I also do not trust the federal government with deciding who dies. ESPECIALLY in the case of child sexual assault because it is an area in which innocent people are convicted on a egular basis. Have you read about Wenatchee, Wa? A good case against the police having too much power, and how easy it is to convict innocent people of crimes.

posted 06-17-2001 21:22            

OKLAHOMA CITY, OK-- Timothy
McVeigh's death by lethal injection
Monday has made everything perfect in
Oklahoma City, his 168 victims' loved
ones describing themselves as feeling
"100 percent better." "I just know my
baby girl is up there in heaven, smiling
down on this execution, happy as can
be," said a beaming George Browne,
whose 7-year-old daughter Brianna died
in the 1995 federal-building blast. "Her
death is avenged, and everything's
great." Said Oklahoma City
schoolteacher Sherrie Olsacher, 37,
who was blinded in the bombing: "You
can't imagine how healing this is. My
eyesight's even returned." Moments
after McVeigh was pronounced dead,
168 white doves were seen soaring over
the city, racing toward a suddenly
cloudless horizon that beckoned the
dawn of a glorious new day.

posted 06-18-2001 08:01            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demon-of-Elru:
The severity of the punishment should be proportional to the crime. Steal, good by hands. Actually.. just cut off thier 4 fingers, keep the thumb for comedy. Kill, be killed. Rape, goodbye junk. Abuse someone, get beat up and left in a gutter. No need to really waste money on morons like them. Some people get away with bad things, and some people get in trouble for stealing pizza or something. Our "justice" system is in -desperate- need of repair.

---

1. Move to Nigeria - what you're describing is basically equivalent to Shar'ia law.
2. Let us know how you like it when (and if) you get back.

I hope you get some serious salable skills and a nest egg (and some good political connections) before you leave though - Shar'ia nations tend to be rather, er, less than economically viable, and with a (proposed!) minimum MONTHLY wage of approximately $50 US, Nigeria's no exception.

You young'uns... ::sighs:: what you never seem to understand is that there is no single block of society that lives in trailer parks and breaks into your car that you can conveniently label "criminal" and then quit worrying about. You know those guys with the badges? And the ones with the robes? And the ones that wear the $5000 suits to the legislative sessions? A lot of them are crooks too.

Do not, do not, do fucking not give the people in power too much power - that way lies Nazi Germany, the old USSR, China, Iraq, etc.

posted 06-18-2001 13:05            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jimbo:
You know those guys with the badges? And the ones with the robes? And the ones that wear the $5000 suits to the legislative sessions? A [b]lot of them are crooks too. [/B]

---

I agree. I was just giving examples before. They are crooks, and they get justice. Just how that would happen is beyond me. It is just how I think, man.