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Author
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Topic: My sister is a Jehova Witness
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marcel
Member with a member bigger than the member with a member
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posted 06-29-2001 05:38
  
My sister is a Jehovah’s Witness. The hooked (recruited) her during my second year of high school. I was at home (Sunnyvale, CA) cutting school when “John” came to the door and wanted to “TALK”. My JW radar was on full alert, so I told John I was busy.
John decided to reschedule for tomorrow (would 4pm be OK?). I made careful note NOT to be home at 4pm tomorrow. However, my sister was. You see my sister (3rd year in high school) was going through this “my family does not love/understand me” teenage crisis. “John” showed her respect, tolerance and made her feel included. In short, the JW’s became my sisters’ family. Which at that point in our lives was probably not a bad thing family life was quite turbulent. She studied the bible like crazy over the next 10 years and became a “pioneer”. A pioneer is one who is tasked with (allowed) “spreading the word”, being a pioneer requires substantial church time commitment. She has some killer stories about talking to people some quite amusing and some downright tragic. One thing she did find was that there are a lot of people in pain out there (these were the ones who were more inclined to talk). She went as high in the church as she could locally, and applied to their school in New York (training to be a church official). She was shot down because she was FEMALE (if you know her well enough and squint your eyes you can almost still see the chip on her shoulder). Over the years we have gotten into some rip-roaring debates over religion, spirituality, theology, philosophy etc……..agreeing on almost nothing. We are in out early 40’s now and seem to have considerable more middle ground. In fact, we can REALLY (leave all the BS out) talk to one another. Maybe we are mellowing or are too beat up from life to continue to argue. I guess what bugs me most about ANY fundamentalist group is that they believe they have the ONE and ONLY truth. They truly believe they are doing the right thing by spreading the word. It is disappointing they go about it is such a CAUSTIC and “holier than though” manner.
I guess I’ll try to make a point after all this rambling. POINT: when a Jehovah Witness comes to your door remember that this is someone’s sister or brother and that they are loved. Have a little decency.Marcel
IP: Logged |
Amazon
Anal Amazon,
Assaulter of Men
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posted 06-29-2001 05:58
You know those damn WWJD paraphanalia?
I thought it stood for What Wiccans Just Did.------------------
Is she not right? Is she insane? IP: Logged |
Chess Piece Face
piss-drunk cockmaster
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posted 06-29-2001 07:06
quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
POINT: when a Jehovah Witness comes to your door remember that this is someone’s sister or brother and that they are loved. Have a little decency.
My uncle is a Jehovah's Witness. His constant attempts to convert the rest of the family at all costs ended up alienating him from us for nearly two decades (I met him when I was 4 and then not again until I was 22 and he had learned to keep it to himself). He abandoned his first wife and their two kids because she wasn't religious enough. He lives in a trailer home with his new wife and rarely ever leaves Ohio. What's worse is his is not a unique story - most Witnesses I've met live like this. POINT: I have no respect for a church that makes its money by destroying families. The church leaders identify those most in need of spiritual assistance and abuse that weakness to take over those people's entire lives. That's just wrong. POINT: Any person who approaches my property attempting to sell to me or beg for money gets the same treatment. There is no welcome mat by my door and I consider this behavior to be intrusive; doubly so for the Witnesses who make every attempt to gain access to people's homes. IP: Logged |
marcel
Member with a member bigger than the member with a member
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posted 06-29-2001 07:30
I don't know any witnesses or ANYONE for that matter who live in trailers. My religion
"suggests" how much to give to the church, I do what I can. Don't confuse religion with stupidity. If your uncle can't afford to give to the extent that he is, stop giving.............just common sense. If his original family is probably better off without him. It sounds as though he has a couple of screws loose. I have NEVER been solicited by a witness for money. Every witness I have met seems to be a decent person, a bit on the dull side however.IP: Logged |
Chess Piece Face
piss-drunk cockmaster
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posted 06-29-2001 07:56
quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
Don't confuse religion with stupidity. If your uncle can't afford to give to the extent that he is, stop giving.............just common sense.
I haven't confused anything - I actually know what I'm talking about. You obviously aren't aware that certain religions or sects of religions DEMAND a substantial portion of their members' incomes. Mormonism springs to mind first. To stop contributing at any point will get you kicked out of the organization (which the believers interpret as "into Hell"); leading back to my point of these type of "heavy commitment" churches preying on their members for everything they can get. Common sense and stupidity aren't factors as much as fear is. And technically the Bible states that 10 percent of everyone's incomes should go to the church. Anyone not living up to this defying God's rules (i.e. sinning). Think about that when you "do what you can". IP: Logged |
marcel
Member with a member bigger than the member with a member
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posted 06-29-2001 11:46
I attend a Catholic church in Ohio. Which does not require for me to be a thither. No Catholic churches I have been to require tithing to be a member of their congregation. So, "I do what I can" with a clean conscious. If a person is fundamentally secure with their spirituality and/or religion, why would another religion upset them?
Obviously, it is very important for your uncle to be a member of a Jehovah Witness congregation, why would you deny him that?
Are you purposing to tell him what to think or believe?
It's a shame that he lost his original family. Jehovah Witnesses allow divorce in only a very limited set of circumstances.
I am sure there are some religions/cults that are VERY strict, hand for a hand, eye for an eye, even some that require their members to drink poison. It's the PERSON who makes the decision, not the religion.
If you feel your uncle threw his life why be mad at the religion? it was your UNCLE who made the decision. We are all accountable for our decisions and corresponding consequences.Marcel
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Chess Piece Face
piss-drunk cockmaster
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posted 06-29-2001 12:20
quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
If a person is fundamentally secure with their spirituality and/or religion, why would another religion upset them?... It's a shame that he lost his original family.
There's your answer. I'm upset that I essentially lost a member of my family DIRECTLY because of the actions of a religious organization. You spout that I should be angry with the person, not the religion; but it was the aggressive recruiting of the religion that took him away. So that's what I'm angry about - the recruiting practices. He was taken advantage of in a time of weak-willedness. Here's a more intense metaphor for the same situation: A woman goes jogging in the park at night, knowing it is not safe. She gets raped and beaten. Your argument would have me be angry the woman, not the rapist. Your classic "blame the victim" mentality, applied nationwide, promotes a culture of acceptable victimization. If the rape scenario seems ridiculous to you then keep in mind that that exact cultural phenomenon (women having no recourse for rape) occurs in Italy and several other countries. In America, under guise of freedom of religion, it's perfectly legal to be brainwashed by any given cult into giving up all of your family, friends and posessions and going into mental slavery for life. According to you, that's okey-dokey. According to me, it is wrong. Therein lies our difference of opinion. IP: Logged |
Chess Piece Face
piss-drunk cockmaster
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posted 06-29-2001 12:27
quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
I attend a Catholic church in Ohio. Which does not require for me to be a thither. No Catholic churches I have been to require tithing to be a member of their congregation. So, "I do what I can" with a clean conscious.
Regarding tithing - it is not optional, according to God's word. Whether or not your church chooses to enforce it is immaterial; you either obey the Bible or you burn. If the only way to keep your conscience clean is by selectively ignoring your God's demands then maybe organized religion is not right for you. IP: Logged |
marcel
Member with a member bigger than the member with a member
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posted 06-29-2001 12:44
Call your uncle, tell him you love him (I think you do). You will feel much better inside. Best to you.IP: Logged |
Jimbo
1 dr3w j00 4 p1ggy!
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posted 06-29-2001 13:00
While I tend to have a hell of a lot more SYMPATHY for the chronically abused than for the chronically abusive, there is truth in the statement that each of them are a very real part of the overall problem.On another related note, here's something that occurred to me randomly this morning and kinda rocked my world: applied psychology is the art of hacking someone's brain beneath the interface level. There is a VERY fucking real correlation between using a buffer overflow attack to get r00t on somebody's box and using psychological techniques to get past someone's defenses to help - or brainwash - him or her. It's no wonder that people tend to either love or hate psychologists and/or priests, with very little middle ground available.  IP: Logged |
marcel
Member with a member bigger than the member with a member
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posted 06-29-2001 14:16
Of course it's perfectly legal in America to be brainwashed by a multitude of sources (dishonest persons, cults, huckters, religions, doctors, laywers, used car sales persons.....etc..) it's up to us to sort out the bullshit. It's true when people go thru crisis they are more emotionally vunerable to these external sources.
Where was your Uncle's family at his time of weak-willedness? If he needed support, perhaps the family should have rallied to him.If your family feels so strong about your uncle being brainwashed, you should have nipped it in the bud. But the truth is, he's an adult and made his own decision. If he is miserable he can walk away time he wishes, but he is probably content, being brainwashed and all.....As for your jogger, of course she was the victim. Her intent was to jog not get raped, the rapist perpertrated a crime and she was the victim. This metephor does not apply to your uncle as there is no victim where his story is concerned. It almost seems you are claiming the victim role. Mental slavery? you speak of your uncle as if he were mindless. IP: Logged |
CapnBiggles
clmesdad. stopplease sirmyass is bleeding
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posted 06-29-2001 14:16
hey marcel, where in Ohio? Just curious.IP: Logged |
Bill
Uber PenIs
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posted 06-30-2001 02:54
I studied with the JWs when I was eight years old. My mother believed that they taught the Bible straight, and at that age, I believed everything she said. (When I turned ten or so, my reasoning power kicked in strongly, and some hellish fights ensued. Little Billy was no longer going to be easily controlled.)The JWs are clean, well spoken, and impeccably dressed. They are taught how to effectively argue right in their Kingdom Halls. They actually drill for various debate scenarios. They are persuasive and believe what they say. To the young or the vulnerable, they can be hard to resist. What probably saved me is that my mother never took them completely seriously, or at least never surrendered her own ideas. They are very groupish, and my mother is too much of a contrarian to ever become deeply part of any group. Nevertheless, they frightened me badly. For a few years, I believed that God soon was going to kill almost everyone. I had grave doubts that I or anyone I loved would be spared.
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Bex
Delicate Flower
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posted 07-01-2001 07:51
You know, I have a hard time respecting a religion where the members go door to door trying to sell it. If I feel my life is lacking something to the point I want to join a religion, I'll check out the yellow pages thanks. It's about as annoying as long distance companies harping me to switch to them. If we're all supposedly entitled to our own beliefs, why do the JW's try so hard to convert us all?I was forced to go to catholic schools, catechism classes and church most of my young life and I always hated it. I disagree with many of the auto-beliefs I was forced to accept (I'm pro-choice for example). I finally asked why we had to wait until we were 17 to get confirmed at the church I went to at the time and was told they believed we were better able to choose to become members of the church than the 13 yr olds at another church. So against the wishes of everyone in my family and at church, I CHOSE not to be confirmed and have gone to church about 4 times since then. Moral of the story, push too hard and you end up pushing away, not towards your goal. Many normally religious people who go to their own churches absolutely loathe JW's because they're so damn pushy. Also, Prince just isn't going to be the same since he became a JW and gave up swearing. I think singing Darling Nikki would send him straight to hell. Too bad. -Bex IP: Logged |
kokinolimoneiki
Member with a member
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posted 07-01-2001 15:08
quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
Have a little decency.Marcel
Have a little cake. IP: Logged |
fenomas
argument nazi
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posted 07-01-2001 23:02
A couple thoughts:1. The quality of our message boards is going up, I think. Welcome to marcel and Bill. 2. Marcel: I see what you mean about "blame the uncle, not the church". But I can't blame every JW individually. I can't blame every racist or homophobe who pulls their reasoning out of the good book as an individual, nor can I blame every hick who firebombs a clinic as an individual. And I certainly can't blame as individuals the legions of people throughout the church's long, grim, bloody history who used their faith to make war, misery, totalitarianism, and so on. If someone's uncle gave all his money to Ross Perot, that's wacky. But to many of us, giving it to the church is just insidious. 3. Jim- Correct, but did you read "Snowcrash?" -fen IP: Logged |
Jimbo
1 dr3w j00 4 p1ggy!
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posted 07-01-2001 23:04
Yup, read "Snow Crash" - but frankly wasn't all that impressed; it struck me as something along the line of a mediocre Shadowrun series novel that was trying to think of itself as one of Gibson's better works. ::wry look::IP: Logged |
Chess Piece Face
piss-drunk cockmaster
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posted 07-02-2001 05:30
quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
Of course it's perfectly legal in America to be brainwashed by a multitude of sources (dishonest persons, cults, huckters, religions, doctors, laywers, used car sales persons.....etc..)
You forgot "the military". And I'm not arguing legal/illegal here - my issue is right/wrong. There is an enormous difference. quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
Mental slavery? you speak of your uncle as if he were mindless.
Flawed logic here. One must have a mind for it to be enslaved. quote:
Originally posted by marcel:
Where was your Uncle's family at his time of weak-willedness? If he needed support, perhaps the family should have rallied to him. If your family feels so strong about your uncle being brainwashed, you should have nipped it in the bud.
Thank you Dr. Advice Guy! I can't believe we didn't think of that ourselves! [F12] Here's the deal - my family is spread out all over the country. As a result, we couldn't show up at his house any hour of any day to talk with him like the Witnesses did. Instead, we treated him like an adult and left him to make his own decision; this being the course of action that your whole argument would seem to support (ex. "I made careful note NOT to be home at 4pm tomorrow.") until you contradicted it. It didn't work. Now we know better. Maybe one day you'll know better too. IP: Logged |
marcel
Member with a member bigger than the member with a member
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posted 07-02-2001 06:11
CHESS:When my sister had elective surgery 10 years ago I and another family member got on a airplane to be there when she had the surgery. We did this because JW's will not accept blood, so my mission was to threaten/force/convince her surgeon to give her blood in the event anything went wrong. This was of course against her wishes. But hey.....she was unconscious. Nothing went wrong, no intervention was necessary. My family considered this a potential crisis so we reacted. You see, if you keep the family dialog / communication open, it's still possible to "have a foot in the door." Keep talking to your uncle, keep the channels open. If he has another crisis,
perhaps someone in the family can "go to him", i.e. (airplane, take a few days off). If cost is a issue, consider cutting back on the tithing for a month or so........ As a professional courtesy, no charge.
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Jimbo
1 dr3w j00 4 p1ggy!
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posted 07-02-2001 06:25
quote:
If cost is a issue, consider cutting back on the tithing for a month or so...
::ring:: ::ring:: Hey, it's the clue-phone! And it's ringing for you!  IP: Logged |
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