posted 07-03-2001 01:02            

I go to Western Washington university in Bellingham.. where did you go?>

Major:
BA - concentration in M.I.S.

what were you trying to do, and where did you end up?

Share your thoughts, comments, or anything else.. especially advice, that would be helpfull.

posted 07-03-2001 06:04            

College would have been a much better idea, in retrospect - the down side of being a "well-rounded individual" that nobody ever talks about is that it's a synonym for "took for-bloody-ever to get where the fuck you were trying to go in the first place."

posted 07-03-2001 07:47            

7 years to get two B.S. degrees in Wildlife Ecology and Animal Sciences. Also earned a major in Zoology. End result: no jobs available.

1 year in grad school in Plant Pathology. End result: didn't get to teach, which was my goal, dropped out poor and pissed off.

2 years in tech school, graduating with an A.S. in Lab Animal Technician program (similar to vet tech program) End result: got a temp job I liked making a decent wage but since gov't doesn't hire for shit, lost my job. There were other jobs available, but I liked this one.

Now I'm working as a vet tech and realizing the education I got in tech school was really worth it. Cost was negligible since scholarships abounded and there are a lot of jobs. Which is good, since my student loans from my University of Wisconsin years are hefty.

I will say tho, being well rounded in sciences (I had 185 credits from the UW, most in science or related depts), has really helped me as a tech. I can't imaging earning that degree as an 18 or 19 yr old. Plus, it's helped me in general. I know a lot of stuff and I learned how to teach myself things. I just think universities are not as focused on teaching skill sets. I was told "you can learn to do skill X in 15 minutes on a job. We teach you to think instead".

The value of university depends on how much you want to pay to learn to think. You want skills, go to tech school. It's a MUCH better deal, especially for something like comp sci or skilled trades.

posted 07-03-2001 08:26            

It was definitely worth the many late nights in the computer labs working on a program that was due at 7 am.

posted 07-03-2001 10:42            

But instead I attented the illustrious UW (in Seattle, for you non NW'ers).

Graduated in 97 with a BA in Communications:Media Studies(aka: cocktail party conversation certification).

Had a great time in school, but realized fairly early on the BIG shortcomings of academia. Also, by the end, I had no interest in working in the Media in any way, shape or form. And since they did not start the Film School until the year after I left, of course, I did not get to study what I really wanted to.

But luckily for me, I worked for the Univ. Food Service doing database work. So, lots of free food/coffee and some very out of date tech skills and 5 years (ahem) later, I move to SF and get a job doing FileMaker database work.

WOO! Look at me now ma!

I then wormed my way into the Web Development dept, aka Tony, and got trained in Coldfusion. Coolio.

So, learning on the job has realy been the way to go for me, but that obviosly would not work so well for you super-l33t IS trainee types.

posted 07-03-2001 11:01            

I attended Tech school from the beginning. I started out with liberal arts, just because I couldn't make up my mind. After 3 years of that (with one semester off and one semester cancelled due to the frequency of bomb threats) I dropped that program and moved on to electronics.

I took about 12 credits of electronics over the course of a year and then dropped out and started working more.

But: I was working more at the same grocery store job I'd had since sophomore year of high school.

6 months later I'm told about a job by a friend of mine. I go to two interviews and hear nothing for almost 3 months. Then I get a call "when can you start". Now I'll be working as a computer support specialist, and they're willing to train me.

So:
4 years of college with no degree.
7.5 years at "Woodman's Food Market"
3 days at new job
All other 'skills' self taught or nonexistant.

Boy... I could probably have saved myself a LOT of time by attending classes of some sort. But what do you do when you cant make up your mind?

posted 07-03-2001 11:55            

Highschool took me two years more then usual, so I was 20 when I finally graduated... and I didn't have a clue what I wanted to study.

I took 1 full year of history because I didn't know what to do. The history part was fun but the emphasis was too much on becoming a teacher instead of history so I quit.

Then I did 6(!) weeks of a study called Corporate Information Systems at business school. I was 22 and was in a class filled with 17 year-olds (people who had a "normal" school career") and the teaching system was just like in highschool. I bolted.

The rest of that schoolyear I worked full-time at a computer store. I did assembly, repairs, testing and sales. Although it was a horrible company to work for, I learned a lot of techie stuff and had a lot of fun. The money a full-time job brings in was very nice too.

A friend of mine was following a study called Interaction Design at artschool which sounded like fun, so I applied. They accepted me and I started fresh. Well that lasted about 5 months or so. A combination of lack of dicipline, being fed up with school, lazyness and having the same spending pattern as when I had a full time job made me decide to quit school altogether.

After some tempjobs here and there, I ended up with a job at my current employer, where I've been working for the last 4 years or so. I worked myself up from hardware repairs to tech support, to NT-sysadmin. I was sent out to customers for all kinds of projects. Now I'm slowly switching from system administration to network administration.

I have a HUGE debt from college that'll take me half my life to pay off, but fuck it. I'm happy doing what I do now. The pay is nice and there are lots of great perks. I'm having fun.

posted 07-03-2001 15:07            

I say that as if it's something I didn't plan, but it's not. Not exactly. My last few semesters of college I was seriously burnt-out on school. The actual reason I ended up moving up here without the credit from that last class is because I failed said last class. Sociology of the Family. And the main reason I failed it is because I never went to it.

Most classes I can pass if I show up like once or twice a week. No homework, no reading, I can get the gist and pass the tests just fine. That stupid Sociology class I think I went to maybe....7 times? The entire semester. So the failing wasn't all that unexpected. Now I just have to get off my widening ass and take a correspondence course, get a worthless piece of paper, and get a job having absolutely nothing to do with English (Creative Writing) whatsoever!!!!

Pisses me off too because I have more than enough English credits for the requirements...the last class has to be an Elective because they want "well-rounded" students. Fucking dumb. Stupid liberal arts.

posted 07-03-2001 17:02            

But I say, I'm incredibly glad I went to a real university and not a vocational/tech school. I studied Engineering Physics for 4 years- lots of physics and math. Then I taught english in japan for 2 years, now I'm a "new media specialist" (web designer).

So, what good did engineering physics do for my career? None. But four years in college gave me time to socialize, become a more rounded person, and get interested in things I never would have had contact with. I was able to take classes in computer graphics, erotic literature, "archeometry" (study of proving artifacts authentic or fake), evolution, calculus, japanese, the theory of humor, etc, etc, etc. Plus I got to work with a Black-Hole research group, and play with The Cave, a full-immersal VR setup. You can't get that shit at vo-pro. No, it didn't increase my salary, but money isn't my primary goal.

Anyway, many employers these days aren't looking for specific skills so much as well-rounded people who communicate and function well with others. Even in technical fields, most companies know that for every employee you fire for lack of skills, you fire twenty more for bad attitudes, poor organization, tardiness, etc.

So, I say, go to a real school, get a real degree, and don't worry too much about how much it will impact your future earnings. If you're smart and adaptible, that will take care of itself. If you're not, become a manual laborer in an industry with a strong union.

posted 07-03-2001 17:30            

quote:

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Originally posted by fenomas:
If you're smart and adaptible, that will take care of itself. If you're not, become a manual laborer in an industry with a strong union.

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Ouch! Don't pull any punches or anything, fen.

posted 07-03-2001 20:42            

Don't worry, I'm not pissed. I love my university education. It took me 7 years to get my degrees because I kept signing up for all sorts of classes I didn't need to graduate but sounded interesting. I earned a third major, and was one class away from a fourth because I accidentally earned enough credits in those departments. I didn't know I had earned a zoology major until I was idly adding up credits one day and realized I had passed the credit requirement a semester before. Getting it approved was a formality.

My only beef about the path my life took is that I came out of the UW with a major loan debt. Not such a problem if you're a comp sci major, but most ecologists work in government and there aren't any jobs. The ones that exist tend to be LTE, with no benefits and no job security past 6 months. And I didn't want to sell cattle feed. What I wanted to do, is what I do now, and that's work directly with large animals in a medical setting. To do that, a vet tech degree from a tech school was almost essential. While you can get by with on-the-job training and a couple years experience, it is not a job you just wander into and do well.

I'd also like to add that anyone who thinks tech school is for inbred losers who can't get into a real school, that may be true for a liberal arts degree. But in two years I worked harder and had a hell of a lot more stress and intensive study than I ever did as an undergrad OR a grad student.

It's all in what you're willing to sacrifice. I pay more in loan payments now than I do in rent each month. A new car or a house is a very distant dream. I'm poor, but damn, I know a lot of stuff.

posted 07-03-2001 22:36            

quote:

---

Originally posted by fenomas:
Anyway, many employers these days aren't looking for specific skills so much as well-rounded people who communicate and function well with others. Even in technical fields, most companies know that for every employee you fire for lack of skills, you fire twenty more for bad attitudes, poor organization, tardiness, etc.

---

w3rd. After two years of college and eight years of real work experience, I can safely say that it's not what you know but how well you play with others. No matter how qualified you are; if your cow-orkers hate you, you are history. Helps to impress the boss too, as sycophantic as that sounds.

My example? No degree, god-awful resume, and a salaried positiion at IBM. Nobody around me got where I am without either a degree or decades with the company. I attribute my success to a willingness to listen and learn. When nobody else wanted to take classes for the new DB system, I (as a temp) displayed my eagerness and it landed me in a great job.

posted 07-03-2001 22:47            

I was referring to an older post where (I think) you replied to me: "Fen, every time you post you manage to piss someone off." I's just being sarcastic, I know you love me.

Anyway, I should amend my views- everything I said assumes you're 18 or 19. If you're 28, and you want to break into a certain industry, fuck college, by all means go to a tech school. But, by 28, you've learned about as much about life and social issues as you're probably going to learn- you don't need life experience, just job experience. That's what I meant.

posted 07-04-2001 15:19            

For my money, all technical school does is encourage you to actually spend several hours per day working on the same thing, on the grounds that you're paying for it and might as well learn it. If you spend a couple hours each night trying to learn X, where X is a technical skill that you don't have (but which isn't entirely outside the possible realm of your comprehension), I think you'll learn X faster on your own than in vo-tech. The catch is, that only works if, at some point in your life, you learned how to learn new skills. Which is arguably the point of college. Many of the things I learned in college (like, say, differential equations) are so completely erased from my mind that it seems like something I understood in a past life, but I certainly remember what I had to go through to learn it the first time, and I could learn it again if I needed to. And, if I weren't lazy, of course.

posted 07-04-2001 17:08            

Tech school helps with certain skill sets you can't get on your own time. Computer programming, sure. But what about car repair, nursing, dental technician, firefighting or being a vet tech? I sure as hell couldn't learn anesthesia and surgery techniques in my living room. Tech schools also have a lot of equipment and facilities available for learning such as microscopes, automotive tools, expensive graphics applications/computer workstations, and outside the classroom experience.

It's not for everyone, I will admit. I felt like I was regressing to high school after being at the university. But I'm very glad I went. Tech schools are great at giving you job contacts through internships and other teaching experiences and they seem to work a lot harder at job placement for graduates. When I graduated, there was an average of 4 job openings for every graduate in my program.

posted 07-04-2001 22:36            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jimbo:
Who says you can't learn car repair at home? It ain't exactly rocket science.

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posted 07-04-2001 23:54            

Of course, with my tendancy for ghetto mods its probably not something to brag about

posted 07-04-2001 23:58            

I dropped out of high school at 16 after my teachers called me Jennifer (my sister) for 2 years and graded my work based on their opinion of her (very low), it got old, decided to take the GED without studying (passed with an excellent score btw), and went to work. I had my own place within 6 months, and supported myself after that. I then met a very goofy kid, and we moved in together and got married. He went in the Army, I tried to go back to school. The district we lived in thought that I was too young to take adult education classes so they stuck me in alternative school (ever try to read Shakespeare with a 15 year old mother of 3 asking if you wanna go smoke a bowl behind the school?). That lasted precisely one month, and I gave up. I joined the Army, was trained as a clerk/typist and here I am today, unemployed.