posted 09-11-2001 12:11            

UPDATE FIVE: I just heard live audio of Palestinian ragheads politically concerned citizenry cheering in the fucking streets because "the mighty United States has been harmed."

Am I wrong that I should be offended by this? And they say the south isn't racist. Sheesh.

posted 09-11-2001 12:54            

He's ranting about the assholes cheering about this act of lunacy, [b]not[b] about the Palistian people as a whole.

posted 09-11-2001 13:16            

Would be okay if some white person got killed by a black person and was followed by a group of blacks cheering and laughing to call them a group of "niggers."

You know what? I don't fucking think so. All we know in the west about Islam, unless we make an active effort to learn about it, is that they're a bunch or "raghead", ak47 toting, group ranting, flag burning, fucking crazies hellbent on destroying the US.

Well, folks... that's the fucking media for you.

I don't like that that group of Palestinians was cheering the good graces of the explosions on my home soil, but anti-racism is something that shouldn't just take a break, because we THINK that it was somewhere in Islam that causes all this pain.

If we wanna rid ourselves of racism, we can't just take days off.

posted 09-11-2001 17:04            

I'M not concerned with their religion or the color of their skin, I'M concerned with their actions. YOU are the one concerned with their religion and/or race.

posted 09-11-2001 17:16            

Jimbo, I also were calling them ragheads most of the day... doesn't make ME right, either.

In my life, I have lost count the number of times non-caucasians have called me cracker or honkey, white trash, redneck or whatever.... I still didn't like it and it didn't make THEM right either.

Relax. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them.

posted 09-11-2001 17:19            

quote:

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Originally posted by hussain:

Am I wrong that I should be offended by this? And they say the south isn't racist. Sheesh.

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posted 09-11-2001 17:43            

Lets just say that for the purposes of THIS DISCUSSION ragheads meant crazies shooting guns in the street and cheering over people getting blowed up.

Anyhow, I think it may be wise to avoid this phrase for awhile

quote:

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. Its just like Hitler saying he killed Jews to avenge Jesus

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While Hitler did do this... I personally dont consider it a fitting analogy. Saying that a person is a raghead because he thinks people dying is good is different than saying that god looks favorably upon us because we're making millions suffer.

Hussain: I have a lot of respect for your opinions, but I just watched footage of people jumping 110 stories to their deaths because they were about to be burned. Not a good time for stirring social debate.

-Chris

posted 09-11-2001 18:07            

quote:

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Would be okay if some white person got killed by a black person and was followed by a group of blacks cheering and laughing to call them a group of "niggers."

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If one person murders another person, and another group of people follow him cheering and laughing, should you maybe have better things to worry about than what word is used to describe the people following, cheering and laughing at the murder?

posted 09-11-2001 18:50            

I heard that they have (from a flight attendant) the seat number of one hijacker.. do we know a nationality or name?

posted 09-11-2001 19:11            

I have my priorities straight.

Don't ever fucking question my ethics.

posted 09-11-2001 20:48            

What do you do with vermin?
Exterminate them.

posted 09-11-2001 21:01            

2. I'll "question your fucking ethics" at any time they appear suspect. You're free to call me a racist - I'm free to disagree. I'm free to question your fucked-up priorities - you're free to indignantly protest your perfection. It's A Free Country. See how that works?

3. Apparently I haven't said this often enough, so I'll say it again - This Has Nothing To Do With Race. I see people of Middle Eastern descent on a daily basis; I work downtown in a reasonably-sized city. I don't look at them any different today than I did yesterday, which is no differently than I look at white people - they're Americans. And they're not jumping up and down in the street celebrating civilian massacres.

quote:

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If you spent your entire life with no access to any news except for state propaganda about the Great Evil, and then heard that noble brother citizens might have sacrificed their lives in defense of their homeland by fighitng the great Satan, you'd be happy too.

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Fen, I'm pretty disappointed with this statement. Are you telling me you think that EVERYBODY in Palestine or any other Middle Eastern area was out there shooting guns and having a good ol' fashioned massacre celebration? Personally, I doubt it - I have a feeling there were at least five times as many people huddled in their fucking houses hoping they wouldn't die when somebody got a little too rowdy.

DON'T expect me to respect a bunch of motherfuckers celebrating a large-scale civilian massacre. DON'T expect me to go "oh but it's okay, they just don't know any better." It was not a military action, those people were not collateral damage, this was a CIVILIAN MASSACRE on an enormous scale. Nobody even bothered to deliver a fucking manifesto.

quote:

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The vicious cycle that you create by calling the killers racist slurs will insure more oppression and killing in the future. It starts with one person changing a few words in there vocabulary, to start a total revolution.

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I find it absolutely astonishing that in the wake of what must be well over 10,000 casualties early this morning, you're apparently laying the whole thing at my feet because I called the folks who were rowdily celebrating the fact a derogatory - NOT racist, bloody DEROGATORY - slur.

For your information, nobody's doing this shit because any American - myself or anybody else - ever called anybody a camel jockey or a sand nigger or even an uncle-fucker. They're doing it because Uncle Sam, in all his wisdom, has decided to make a policy of picking one bunch of black-hats in ever genocidal hellhole in the world and back them at the expense of the OTHER local bunch of black-hats. Not only does this do nothing for the innocents who are at the mercy of both groups, it pisses EVERYBODY in the equation off because we're seen very visibly backing a bunch of damn black-hats.

If I lived in Palestine, I'd probably hate the USA's fucking guts myself... but I for goddamned sure wouldn't be cheering in the street when thousands of civilians were massacred.

posted 09-11-2001 21:57            

quote:

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Originally posted by Snag:
Don't ever fucking question my ethics.

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Grrrr.

The only problem I had with that statement is the fact that this is a message board... If I dont question your ethics about all that leaves is your gender, sexuality, intelligence, and marital status. We've already stated that those are probably taboo topics (except for intelligence, which I dont think is in question right now). Whats left?

quote:

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originally quoted by Jimbo:
...uncle fucker....

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Actually, I think that when(if) we finally find out what group is responsible for this that we call them uncle fuckers. Unless this term has already been reserved for a certain religion/region/ethnicity/fungus. Then when you say "Damn those uncle fuckers" I'll know who you're talking about. Vermin is just too vague

By the way:
Shut the fuck up and donate blood or something.

posted 09-11-2001 22:35         

quote:

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Originally posted by Snag:
Don't ever fucking question my ethics.

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I was ok with all this up to now. I refuse to say my stance on this because its fueling a pointless debate that is overshadowing a horrendous event.

If you dont want your ethics questioned, dont ever fucking write on this board again. A message board is the essence of questioning others on the internet.

There is an unspoken concensus here that we are allowed to voice our own thoughts, opinions, and ideas without too great a repurcussion from our peers. Sure, some of us may disagree with what the other has said. But you know what? That happens a fucking lot. Get over it.

You may feel angry that others have challenged the direction of your moral compass, but stop bitching because its more than likely to happen again in your lifetime. Especially here.

I may not agree with what you, Jimbo, or anyone might say. Sometimes they may even offend me. Maybe they don't. Who knows. But one thing is certain: I will defend to the death the right for anyone to voice what he thinks or feels because that is his inherent right to do. I feel especially strongly about this because of current events. I will not silence anyone based upon my distaste about how I see or feel he has wronged myself or others, IF that is the case. People have died to defend our rights and our freedoms, and sometimes a disaster is all it takes to show how ugly, but precious, it really is.

Now go back into the white tower of goodness you've erected for yourself, put the pearl-coated shafted back into your rectum, and shut the fuck up about what we can and cannot say.

I will no longer contribute to this discussion.

posted 09-11-2001 22:42            

Jimbo, some of your points are indeed very correct.

I agree that this is not a race war, and that this is about money, money, money, and politics, politics, politics.

I do not agree however that you can justify using a racial slur. Racial slurs are the most simple and subtle way to oppress a people. Jimbo, I take it you are white, and I assume that you live in the United States. That said, you and I, (white American men in America.) are the only men in this great country that cannot feel personally the effects of direct racism pointed at us.

Now before we all get huffy, let me explain:
Racism is a form or oppression. It is the belittling, the devaluing, and the defacement of an entire race. To oppress a people you need to be above them, financially, economically, and socially. Guess where White American Men are on that list? We may feel that we can be subject to racism, but we cannot be. We can experience direct prejiduce, but never until we are not on the top of list, can we experience direct racism. It is impossible.

I'm not calling you a racist Jimbo, but I do wish that you would realize that it starts with every person holding there tounge against smashing someone with there tounge. It is very improbable that a battle against racism can ever be won, but if we as a human people took a second to instead of insulting eachothers races, creeds, sexualities, and even political stance, etc... and learn to criticize eachothers values constructively, that perhaps we would not get into altercations that cause painful amounts of anger, and result in unspeakable things.

posted 09-11-2001 22:47            

Jimbo- When I saw that video of people in palestine (where?) cheering, Peter Jennings wasn't even sure, at the time, if it was live or taped. So we sure as hell don't know what it was they heard. Probably their state-run news just announced that "someone struck a great blow for our cause". I don't think they were hearing about missing firemen and that woman calling her husband. Right?

posted 09-11-2001 22:54         

quote:

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Originally posted by fenomas:
Nice going, biggles. "Let me respond to each of your points in detail. Now that I've done so, I remove myself from the discussion, so you needn't reply." That kind of thing has made usenet a barrel of fun.

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Sorry, my apologies. You make a valid point. Its been a long, tough, day for me for some personal reasons. For everyone. But I still stick behind my opinion, just as anyone has the right to do and critque.

posted 09-11-2001 22:58            

I...

I love you guys. Each and every one of you. I mean that in a totally non-sexual way.

posted 09-11-2001 23:03            

Regarding whether the hijackers were well trained, the following: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12507-2001Sep11.html