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  • I hope that headline wasn't meant to be a pun.

    Wait. No. I lied. I hope it was.

  • fuggin' yowza

  • Hey, haven't read the news yet today, anything interesting happen?

  • Ah catching up now, US president is inciting insurrection, cool cool 😎

  • I was watching his tweets get edited/deleted in real time today. They were weird tweets to be sure, but he wasn't calling for blood. Cops let the people walk in, and walk back out again.

  • edited January 2021

    @LonMabonJovi said:
    They were weird tweets to be sure, but he wasn't calling for blood.

    He did it in person. Incited/insurrection language isn't from me, it's per Mitt Romney, NYT, WaPo, etc.

    Hell even the turtle called it a failed insurrection 🤣

  • edited January 2021

    Incidentally here's video of the folks walking in and out again:

    Foo

  • Don't get me wrong, they 100% asked for this and it was extra funny to hear McConnell lamenting about there being two versions of the truth. But, what is going on here?

  • They beat a cop to death with a fire extinguisher but are now claiming they didn't know they couldn't do that. Also attempting to blame antifa for infiltrating the group and doing all the bad stuff.

  • Well, I read the transcript of Trump's speech. I saw no call for riot, insurrection, or anything else of the sort.

  • Bill: "by carefully examining subtle nuances of word choice in this apparently neutral article, I can tell that the author is deeply biased against Trump"

    Also Bill: "when Trump spent an hour lying to an angry mob that their country was being stolen, and then told them if they didn't fight back they wouldn't have a country anymore and to march on the capitol, he didn't explicitly order them to riot so what's the problem?"

  • @Bill said:
    Well, I read the transcript of Trump's speech. I saw no call for riot, insurrection, or anything else of the sort.

    You really can't be so naive as to believe that, because he didn't use the precise words, that absolves him of the intent that was so blindingly obvious. Trump is an expert at not using the exact words, just like he was when he was extorting the Ukrainian Prime Minister, without specifically saying the words. Maybe he didn't know exactly what the crowd would do, but he lathered up an angry crowd looking for a fight and pointed them at the Capitol. Honestly, you can't possibly believe that, as long as you don't use the exact words, it's all good.

    I know you're not stupid, but it's difficult to tell when you say things like this...

  • edited January 2021

    It read like he wanted a loud demonstration. There's nothing in there that implies he wanted them to occupy the Capitol.

    After this, we’re going to walk down and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

    We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

  • @Bill said:
    It read like he wanted a loud demonstration. There's nothing in there that implies he wanted them to occupy the Capitol.

    Dude, the cat and his surrogates lied for months to those people, that their country was being literally stolen from them, by enemies of the people, and that patriots who loved their country needed to do something about it.

    Is the bar for culpability really whether or not he explicitly told them to riot? That's what they were there to do.

  • You don't know that Trump doesn't believe what he was telling them, nor do you know that Trump knew that they were there to riot. Furthermore, I've also read some stuff, credibility unknown, that the persons listening to Trump's speech were a separate crowd from those occupying the Capitol, example.

  • I don't know what you're trying to say. The dude said untrue things that incited his followers to riot - that much is demonstrably true. Are you saying it's okay as long as he believed the stuff he said?

  • I read the transcript, and I don't believe he planned to incite a riot.

    If he believed what he said, he wasn't lying.

    Obviously, he planned to stir up the crowd that was listening to him speak, but urging a loud demonstration and inciting a riot are two different things. If he believed what he was saying, I don't see how he can be held responsible for even accidentally starting a riot.

    There might be a case for gross irresponsibility, but we don't know what the persons closest to Trump were telling him. Surely you can't expect Trump to believe the reports of a press that has been out to destroy him ever since he started his campaign for president. To have any case at all, you at least have to prove that Trump's trusted advisors had told him that he had lost a fair and honest election.

  • edited January 2021

    My dude, he's the president. If he wants accurate information, he can order any number of three letter acronyms to get it for him. If he was fed bullshit by his advisors, that's on him for surrounding himself with bullshitters. Blaming others for his bad decisions is pure silliness.

    If he believed what he said, he wasn't lying.

    ....um, first off that's a super weird defense to make, and second what's inside his head is unknowable and irrelevant. The observable facts are: he fed his followers incendiary untrue claims for months, and then they rioted.

  • He told them on twitter to come and take their country back. For quite some time. He was outright calling for revolution on twitter.

    His surrogates (like Rudy Giuliani) have been advocating for a show of force. Giuliani literally said trial by combat, right before the speech by the president.

    He said he would march with them to the Capitol, and told them to show strength, and "if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore". He blamed Pence for the entire thing directly, which gave them a target. He used language that has gotten mob bosses convicted in the past... because that is how he pictures himself.

    The people arrested believe that Trump told them to do this. The people that I saw planning to raise hell on Parler (before it shut down) were true believers of what Trump was telling them on twitter and at rallies. The speech on Jan. 6th reinforced it, and was clear.

    ...and this isn't the first time either. His supporters were getting ready to swarm D.C. in 2016 as well. He was even worse there, not afraid to mention 2nd amendment supporters whenever he mentioned the possibility of Hillary winning. But despite that, he was not the damn president at that point.

  • Aha clme, but what if the rioters believed it was okay to invade the capital and beat a cop to death?

  • edited January 2021

    @Bill said:
    It read like he wanted a loud demonstration. There's nothing in there that implies he wanted them to occupy the Capitol.

    So, your response to, "it's not the specific things he said on the 6th, it's the totality of everything that he and his proxies have said, across time.", is a quote of specific things he said on the 6th?

    Beyond his specific intent of his words on the 6th, Trump is charged that he, "... willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged — and foreseeably resulted in — lawless action at the Capitol, such as: "if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore." The key in the charge isn't that he ordered or even intended for the crowd to attack the Capitol. The key is that it would "foreseeably resulted in" a violent attack on the Capitol.

    For that matter... Trump is not just responsible for his statements. It was his rally. He is also responsible for Rudy "trial by combat" Giuliani, his son and daughter-in-law and Mo Brooks, who said “Today is the day that American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.”

    Given that Trump is entitled to all the same intelligence (whether he pays attention to it or not), he should have known what was being said by, and about, the people he invited to his rally.

    You would have to be some sort of immaculate idiot, to charge up the crowd with everything that had been said, send them on their way to the Capitol, and not reasonably expect exactly what happened. He sat and watched it on television, as it happened. His only regret, that his supporters looked, "low class."

    Trump knew exactly what he was setting into motion, in hopes that he could derail the certification process.

  • edited January 2021

    @fenomas said:
    Aha clme, but what if the rioters believed it was okay to invade the capital and beat a cop to death?

    There were plenty of terrorists (my preference to "rioters") who believed it was ok, because they were there on the president's orders, and said so, to the cops in the Capitol. I doubt any of them had any doubts about what they were doing. The people in the way (including the cops) were traitors and deserved what they got.

  • Trump only has one day left to unveil his health care plan.

    I bet it's going to be a doozy.

  • Gosh, if it was everything he promised it was four years ago I can only imagine what they've added to it in that time.

  • No idea why you're going to bat for trump. He's been a huge turd.

  • Maybe he left a copy of the health care plan in the Oval Office?

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